Speaker 1 00:00:04 Welcome to our podcast, shockers Learning Out Loud, where we talk about the fear, the excitement, the setbacks, and most importantly, the accomplishments that come along with being an adult learner. Speaker 2 00:00:14 That was your host, Dr. Pamela O'Neill. And I'm your co-host Dr. Amber Anderson. And we are the office of Online and Adult Learning. Although our department merged happened recently, Pam and I have been having fun collaborating for years. We have one goal at wsu, and that's to advocate for our online and adult learners. Our adult learners are working full-time jobs, care taking for a family member, raising a family themselves, and involved in the community. So, needless to say, their time is limited, and we know that, and we fill you guys. Our office wants to advocate for your success, so stay tuned for the voices of your adult learning peers. As we unpack funny, fails, inspiring wins, and mostly the adult learning experience. Speaker 1 00:00:59 One of the things that you and I have talked about before is how, um, adult learners differ, you know, in our daily discussions. Um, but yet there are some similar characteristics, although that's not a homogeneous population. Um, I know a lot of our adult learners are working. Um, they are taking care of kids and their parents. Uh, what are some of the other characteristics you would say? Well, Speaker 2 00:01:27 I would think that your students kind of come on campus more than mine would. Yes, actually, yes. Um, your students are what, 24 and up Speaker 1 00:01:35 24 and older? Uh, earning a bachelor's degree? Speaker 2 00:01:37 Yes. Okay. Our students are enrolled in online programs, so oftentimes they're never on campus. So my students look a little bit different, but for the most part, they're all adult learners. Right. So that means that our students are working full-time, they're involved in the community, they're raising families, they're often taking classes with their teenagers. Um, they're caretaking for their parents and Right. Uh, et cetera, et cetera. So they don't have any extra time, but they do wanna finish their degree, Speaker 1 00:02:12 You know, and that's a lot like myself. Um, when you were talking about these students and Yeah, I worked full-time and, um, I did too. Yeah. Yeah, we both did. But you were more of the traditional age, is that right? Speaker 2 00:02:26 Yeah, I think I started about 22 ish. Speaker 1 00:02:29 Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I was 31 when I started, and so a little bit of difference there in age. But, um, like you, uh, I would come to campus park, take my class, you know, do the classes, and then go back to work. And so I think you had a similar experience. Yeah, Speaker 2 00:02:48 I did. And I was a first generation student, so are you right? Yes. Yes. So we didn't have, um, I certainly didn't have any family members or friends or peers that I grew, grew up with in, um, a low income area Right. Of Wichita. Um, I didn't have anybody to kind of teach me what online credit hours were what, how to do higher education, so, right. Uh, Speaker 1 00:03:13 Before we go any further, I, sorry, I didn't wanna interrupt you there. Please, please do. Um, first, uh, can you can give a de definition or what is our definition here at Wichita State? Speaker 2 00:03:24 I believe first generation is any undergrad student who is pursuing their degree. Right. Who their moms or their parents and grandparents have not graduated with Speaker 1 00:03:37 A four year degree. That's what I understand as well, so, correct. Yeah. That's what, in case you didn't know, like myself, I didn't know what a first gen student was when I started. No. And I didn't know that I was one , but there I was being this adult learner. And at that time, um, we were more, I think we're called non-traditional students, but I believe today's, uh, the term most frequently used as adult learner for those 24 and older, uh, getting their degree. So, you know, you talked about you grew up on the south side, right? Speaker 2 00:04:09 I did, Speaker 1 00:04:10 Yeah. And, uh, mine's a little bit different. I grew up on a farm and, um, had, you know, a big family and, uh, loved that I was able to, you know, live that kind of life. But that also means that, you know, coming to Wichita State, I was even the small, or the biggest town next to, or that we were from, basically was, um, a population of 1300 people mm-hmm. . So when I come to Wichita State, it's like, huge, man, this is a big town, even in a big town. Mm-hmm. . And so, uh, that was a little bit of a shock to me. And I know you've talked about some of the shocks or the things that you've kind of went, oh my goodness. You know, this is totally different. So can you talk about those for a little bit? Uh, Speaker 2 00:04:54 I had a little bit of a culture shock as well. Uh, I wasn't really on a farm or a rural area, but I did live on a low income side of Wichita mm-hmm. . And so since I was a middle schooler, high schooler, we were, uh, somehow part of a higher income community, and we got bused to a very expensive high school with, um, more affluent, I guess you Speaker 1 00:05:22 Could say. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:05:22 Yeah. So, um, uh, my reasoning for continuing my education and going into higher education is because I just, I critically just wanted to be secure, have a paycheck. Um, you know, often my parents were experiencing high stress situations where they couldn't pay the bills, Speaker 1 00:05:44 And so I'm not even really living paycheck to paycheck. Yeah. I mean, ki kind coming Speaker 2 00:05:48 From like an emergency type of environment, so, right. My goal was initially to have my own independence, be able to help help my parents with the quality of life. Um, so I, I kind of came out of a kind of a panicky type of start. Right. Speaker 1 00:06:08 And I think mine is a little bit different in that it wasn't so much panicky, but knowing like you, that a lot of people did here at Wichita State didn't come from the same situation I did. And I, I felt out of place for a while. I will admit that. Mm-hmm. . Um, but for me, I worked for, uh, a printing company for 13 years. And, um, when I went to grade school, I know they used to hound us at, you know, if you're not using your talents, that's a sin. And I kind of grew up with that mentality, and I knew that when I was working at this printing company, I was, uh, doing small deliveries and just the, you know, the day-to-day, uh, binding aspects or whatever you're doing in the printing company. Right. And so I was like, well, you know, I was always a good writer. I'd love to write. Um, it's something that I wanted to do. And so I kind of, I can tell you the exact moment I was driving down Kellogg, and I'm like, there has to be more than this Speaker 2 00:07:07 . Speaker 1 00:07:08 And, um, right after I got off work, then I went to, uh, central and West at the time, or I think that's, or Central and Ridge, uh, here in Wichita. And I walked into the front door of, what was the Speaker 2 00:07:20 West Campus? The Speaker 1 00:07:21 West, wasn't it West Campus? Yes. Yes. And I said, I think I wanna take some classes. And they said, well, what do you wanna do ? And I'm like, I wanna be a writer. I knew and I wanted to write for a newspaper, but I don't think, um, as a traditional student, didn't you talk about switching your major once or twice? Speaker 2 00:07:37 Yeah. Well, I, I started out wanting to be a clinical psychologist mm-hmm. and realized, uh, I'm kind of an empath, so that wasn't gonna be really a, a good Right. Um, career for me. So then I, I bounced around a lot and I, I tell Pam all the time, you don't necessarily think you're going to be in online learning. We didn't even know what that was back in 1998. Mm-hmm. , you know, . Yeah, Speaker 1 00:08:03 Yeah, yeah, Speaker 2 00:08:03 Yeah. So, um, you know, you, I would come to school, take different classes, talk to different faculty, listen to my peers, and I ended up finding myself, even though it changed a couple different times, I found I found my place. Speaker 1 00:08:19 Yeah. You know, and you do, even as, as big as Wichita State University is, you find your place, you find your people. And you know, I think for me, as having our offices here in Grace Villey Annex, um, it's, we create that place where you can find your people. And that's what draws a lot of our students in. While you and I didn't have that experience, and you said something that really resonated with me, you didn't know what online learning was when you were taking your class because there wasn't even really much of a thing then. Yes. Um, I wanted to be a writer and I wound up, um, now the associate director of Online and Adult Learning. Well, by the time when I graduated in oh two, um, we may have had the Office of Online Learning, but I know we didn't have the Office of Adult Adult Learning mm-hmm. . And so my position wasn't even thought of. I wouldn't even know it was something that I could do. Speaker 2 00:09:13 It was unheard of. Speaker 1 00:09:14 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you were the same, right? Speaker 2 00:09:17 , yeah. We were going in different directions. Speaker 1 00:09:19 Yeah. Yeah. But it's kind of funny how you know it, we've been brought together and while we see our similarities and our differences, uh, I, I think we connect well with our students who a lot of our students are like us. You know, maybe, uh, first gen, I think, uh, for adult learners, it's almost about 75% of our student population. Yeah. Uh, doesn't have that, um, fam those family members with a college degree. And so that's where I think we like to step in and say, you know what? We'll be your family members. We'll show you the ropes. We'll show you, I know you've said this Absolutely. Before, I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but, you know, we've put mistake, we've made mistakes. Right. Speaker 2 00:09:58 We've, I have made a ton of mistakes in higher education just because I didn't have anybody to lean on or guide me Speaker 1 00:10:06 Or ask the questions to Speaker 2 00:10:07 Correct. And I, I would come here, park on campus, I would go to my class, and then after class I would go back to work. So, um, and because I didn't know a lot of, I didn't know the resources that were available on campus. Yeah. I ended up taking too many classes. It was really expensive. And so anytime, and I didn't know the terminology, I didn't know the colloquialisms. And people will just ramble things off really fast on in, at college and I wouldn't understand. And I'd feel like the odd man out cuz I didn't really connect with what they were saying. So I ended up making a couple mistakes, you know, on my educational journey. And so now that has really sharpened me to be a good advocate for our students because I know the traps that you can fall into, the things you may not understand, the things that you miss. Speaker 1 00:10:59 And something that you said, um, about resources, I always tell our students we are a resource rich university and we are. That being said, it's hard to know what your resources are. Yeah, Speaker 2 00:11:11 That's true. Speaker 1 00:11:11 Especially if you're department to Speaker 2 00:11:12 Department, college to college. If Speaker 1 00:11:14 You're busy, you're working nine to five, eight to five or whatever you're doing, you don't have time to dig around to see what those resources are. And that's why I'm here. And I think that's, you kind of feel the same. That's why you are here as well as, uh, to let you know what resources are available. Yes. And I, and I think that's because Speaker 2 00:11:34 We know the things that adult learners struggle with, um, time management, time crunch, um, you know, they don't have a lot of extra time. And so we're very good at listening to what you're going through cuz it looks different for every student. And then being able to, uh, summarize that and figure out which, which resources on campus are best for you. So Speaker 1 00:11:58 Right. Point you in the right direction. Speaker 2 00:11:59 Right. There are no dumb questions. Speaker 1 00:12:00 Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:12:02 That's because I know I always felt like I was an asking dumb questions I often didn't ask them. Speaker 1 00:12:06 Right. Yeah. Which is Speaker 2 00:12:08 Why I made Speaker 1 00:12:08 Mistakes. Yes, yes, yes. I'm so glad you brought that up because I've had, um, uh, adult learners come into our office and ask me, and you can tell they're embarrassed and they're kind of even, they'll admit it sometimes and and say, well, what is Blackboard? How do I get on? What, what is Blackboard? What Speaker 2 00:12:24 Is an learning platform? Yeah. Yeah. How do I do this? Speaker 1 00:12:28 Yeah. And, uh, even, you know, because I've been here. Well, I, like I said, I started in, oh, uh, I don't know if I did say that, but I started in oh two as a student. Mm-hmm. , I was 31 years old. I've been on campus ever since. Uh, Wichita State kind of drew me in and now I don't wanna leave and Speaker 2 00:12:45 now. Yeah. Now they can get rid of us. Speaker 1 00:12:47 They try now. Um, but yeah, so there were these questions, you know, that, uh, I should have asked that I didn't ask. Right. But I wanna be that place or that person. And I know Amber, you do too, where you can either email one of us or call us team, come into the office, Speaker 2 00:13:05 Come to our webinars or Speaker 1 00:13:06 Yeah. Hey, what is a, um, Speaker 2 00:13:10 Blue Speaker 1 00:13:10 Book? Yeah. What's a blue book? Speaker 2 00:13:11 What is Blackboard? Speaker 1 00:13:12 What is a credit hour? You know, what can I do? What can I do? Speaker 2 00:13:15 What are all these fees, Speaker 1 00:13:17 ? Yes. Speaker 2 00:13:18 How do I download this book Speaker 1 00:13:20 And, you know, Speaker 2 00:13:21 For my class, Speaker 1 00:13:21 Here's the thing. I know I don't know all the answers. Speaker 2 00:13:24 Absolutely. Speaker 1 00:13:25 But we have friends, don't we? Yes. , we have friends all over. And I'm hoping to bring some of those on the podcast, um, you know Yes. In the next couple of episodes to talk about what they can do and what they do he do to help our students. Speaker 2 00:13:39 Yes. So they're specifically tailored for the adult learners. Right. So, uh, we'll do that. We'll bring in resources, we'll bring in, uh, a lot of fun people to help you guys out. But we're also gonna bring in students that are adult learners, uh, possibly online or coming to campus. Right. To talk about their experiences and talk about why they started and what the struggle is and who helped them, how they, how they hung in there. And we might also bring in some alumni to talk about right after the graduating, you know, and what they're doing now in their career. Um, Speaker 1 00:14:13 Yeah. And so post-graduation, um, we'll give you contact information at the end of the show, but boy, we'd love to hear from you to see what, or hear what you want to hear, you know. Yes. Um, because we'll try to make it happen for you and see what else we can bring in. Um, but I kind of wanna go back a little Speaker 2 00:14:30 Bit. Oh yeah. We didn't really talk about our background here at that. Speaker 1 00:14:33 Yeah. Yeah. So Speaker 2 00:14:34 We said they can't get rid of us and that's because we did our Yeah. BA Speaker 1 00:14:40 Right. I did my, yeah. Uh, mine was a BA in an MA and finally we went to the same, we had the same doctoral Speaker 2 00:14:47 Program we did actually. Yeah. Yeah. That was not planned. No, Speaker 1 00:14:50 No, no. I didn't even know you were in the same doctoral program until I was about halfway through with mine. Um, but my degrees were in communication and English literature. That was my undergrad and my master's was in communication. And then I got my doctorate in educational le uh, leadership. And what were your bachelor's, Speaker 2 00:15:10 Master's in? Uh, my bachelor's was in psychology cuz I wanted to be a clinical psychologist. And it quickly changed my mind on that and came back for my ma in sociology because they worked with more like quantitative types of data and I thought that, oh, well I'll get my ma and just work with data in an office somewhere and that that'll be good enough. Right. Like we came to college thinking, okay, if I'm, if I'm good enough to get through this class mm-hmm. I'm gonna take more if I Right, okay. Good enough to get through this semester. Maybe we'll do another semester. Maybe we'll graduate . Right? Speaker 1 00:15:46 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I think I've told you before, you know, that's exactly what I did. I took that first college class to even see if I was good enough to retain the information and just kind of took it one class at a time until I finally realized, you know, when I got my doctorate. Huh. Maybe I was smart enough to get that Speaker 2 00:16:04 Degree Right. But, but here's the deal is like you and I came from a place where we didn't see it in ourselves. No. We just, we just showed up, we showed up to class and yes, we would, I would sit in the front cuz I'm a nerd. Speaker 1 00:16:15 Me too. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:16:17 But I would just show up and, uh, somebody always ended up believing in me when I didn't know it myself. Speaker 1 00:16:23 And you know, I think that's what happened. I know that's what happened to me is I found somebody who believed in me more than I believed in myself. Yes. And I think that happens to a lot of our students and that's, that's what we're here for too, because we'll be that, uh, kind of person. But Amber, you touched on something really important mm-hmm. . Um, you know, we were talking about our backgrounds and what classes we took and everything. And although you didn't end up being a clinical psychologist, in my mind, and I, I've never said that, we haven't talked about this before, but I feel like you draw from that sometimes in your job. Sure. Because I know I draw from my communication background. So, um, you know, even though we didn't really know, we, I think we both had our, we had ideas. We Yes. But we couldn't have nurse. No way. We could have known where would we be today. Well, Speaker 2 00:17:11 Yes. And then you told me that the job market had changed. Right. And that threw you for a loop, so you had had Speaker 1 00:17:17 To change. Right. Because I wanted to write for a newspaper that all I'd ever wanted. I mean, you'd see little 10 year old Pam reading the Wichita Eagle at the time. Yeah. And, um, wanting to be like a calmness. And I certainly enjoyed that. And though when I graduated in 2007, every newspaper across the United States was laying people off. And while I can laugh at it that, that now, um, it certainly didn't feel good at the time, but I had one of those professors who believed in me and said, Hey, why don't you get your masters? And I kind of thought, oh, am I smart enough to get my master's even? And so, um, talk about a little bit about your journey too. Speaker 2 00:17:57 That's actually interesting that you said, you know, that the market had changed and you, you, your dream was kind of instantly changed. I think that Wichita State is really good at continuing, always evolving. Yes. Um, because as that economic shift happened mm-hmm. , the college shifted as well. Right. For different job markets and job skills. So Speaker 1 00:18:21 Yeah. They'll prepare you for almost anything. Right. And I think they're really good at that Speaker 2 00:18:28 Because, which just brings me back to if you show up Speaker 1 00:18:31 Yes. Sitting in the front. Ask the question. Just show up. Yeah. Just show up. That's a Speaker 2 00:18:36 Wichita State's gonna take you where you need to go. Right. It did for me mm-hmm. . Um, I certainly didn't understand how higher education worked and, uh, I did get my, my, um, PhD, you know, I kept coming back because somebody said, Hey, uh, you can do this. And I thought, oh wow. Speaker 1 00:18:56 Well, and then, you know what? It's so fun to do. I can do this and then we get to meet other people just like ourselves. Sure. And that's where you and I, you know, um, we may be 10 years apart in age, but we worked together really well. We had different backgrounds, but we still have a lot of shared, uh, commonalities. Sure. And, you know, just our jobs in general. And I think the one thing that unites us and our offices is this, um, wanting to serve our students mm-hmm. and, um, we wanna advocate, you know, I always Yes. Advocate and I had people who helped me and this is my way of giving back. Yes. And I get to have fun, you know, some mornings. No, Speaker 2 00:19:36 It Speaker 1 00:19:36 Is fun. Yeah. I, I j I get excited because I get to come to work and, uh, see the people that I love and make connections with students that I never dreamed I'd be able to and Sure. And so I think that's what we want to do. Speaker 2 00:19:50 It's, it's easy to identify with our students because they have hearts of gold and they're working mm-hmm. and they're, they're trying to better their lives and sometimes they don't have a good semester. And it's, it's very easy for me to connect with that because I had some bad semesters too. Right, right. I had some good ones and I had some bad ones. I had semesters where I had to take some time off Uhhuh . But, um, seeing myself in all of our students is, um, something I love and Speaker 1 00:20:17 I love to help. That's, that's huge. Yes. Yeah. I, you know, I, I talk about one of my, our students whose parents immigrated from Mexico and he had a rough, uh, growing up period, you know, doing so, and you would think this little, uh, girl who grew up on a farm, you know, in rural Kansas couldn't connect with someone. Sure. But we sure did. And we still stay in touch to this day. Mm-hmm. , he graduated year four years ago. And so I think it's, there's a, uh, unity we find with our students and uh, it just, it's so fun. And that's one of the reasons we're doing this is a big reason why we're doing the podcast, is to be able to tell those stories cuz they're unbelievable. Speaker 2 00:20:59 They really are. Unbelievable. They're really good. Um, so that's why I said we're gonna pull in a lot of students cuz uh, Wichita State believed in me. Yes. Uh, Wichita State believed in us. Right. We believe in you. Yeah. So, uh, basically we just wanna be here for you and learn ways to advocate for you and we want you to share tips and tricks that work for you. Yes. Speaker 1 00:21:22 Please. Speaker 2 00:21:22 And things that didn't work for you. Right. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:21:25 Right. So I've always talked about this, Speaker 2 00:21:27 We'll talked about some fails. Speaker 1 00:21:28 Right. So I think one of the things that I learned, um, and you talked about study groups and that really helped for you. Speaker 2 00:21:35 It Speaker 1 00:21:35 Did for me, study groups. I would get confused and I would take somebody's question and I would almost take that as the answer. And I would go in and take a test if I had been in a study group and not do as well. Right. But I learned that about myself, so you know, Speaker 2 00:21:51 Where they kept me on track. Speaker 1 00:21:52 Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:21:53 So, and it was kind of my only connection outside of the courses mm-hmm. that, um, I, I linked up with my peers and my cohort and Right. I'm still best friends with a lot of my cohorts. So Speaker 1 00:22:03 Are you Exactly. Oh yes. Very good friends with people in my cohort forever. And you know, here's another thing for adult learners, um, I was able to connect with my professors because we are about the same age. And I have friends now that I a professor here on campus. I took her class in 2003. So here 20 years later, guess who's one of my best friends on campus. It's, it's, it's really unique, but it's fun. And she was someone that I connected with because I saw her and myself. She came from that working class. Um, not, she wasn't, didn't grow up on a farm. Uh, rather like, uh, I believe her father, I know she came from Pennsylvania and her father worked at uh, oh. The things they do in Pennsylvania, like the steel mills are Right. Whatever they're doing down there. But we connected on that level. And so, uh, you can always find I think someone at Wichita State mm-hmm. to connect with. And Speaker 2 00:23:02 And that's us. We wanna connect with you guys. Speaker 1 00:23:04 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so do you have any tips or anything else that you want to share with our audience before we Speaker 2 00:23:12 Uh, I was thinking that, obviously I keep saying to show up, but Right. You know, I didn't come into higher education with knowing the terminology Yeah. And knowing how it went or the resources, but I kept showing up because I was stubborn and annoying. . Well, and I would Yes. Show up and sit in the front, ask questions. I would make friends with my peers. Right. And if you do that university, the university will hold, take you in. Right. And, uh, you'll, there's no way you can't, Speaker 1 00:23:44 You're going to one thing that you know that I've heard, and I think this is where you're going with that. Um, you're not not going to grow. Right. It's impossible. It's impossible. Yes. Jinx. Yes. . Speaker 2 00:23:56 We're so old. We are Speaker 1 00:23:57 Jinxing. Speaker 2 00:23:58 But Speaker 1 00:23:58 You know, that that that's so true though. Um, you Speaker 2 00:24:02 Know Right. Because you're sitting there talking to your peers. Right. Uh, opportunities are fun into your lap. Yeah. Like, I wasn't necessarily going to be a graduate student assistant. I didn't know that Speaker 1 00:24:11 Existed. Right. Yeah. I Speaker 2 00:24:13 Didn't know there was Speaker 1 00:24:15 Graduate student and I thought a graduate student , uh, there's another terminology. A graduate student was somebody that graduated and, you know, . Right? Okay. No. So a graduate student is actually someone here, Wichita State, who is in a master's or doctoral program that's already completed their bachelor's. And so there's all these things, if something doesn't make sense to you, um, I hope that you reach out to one of us and ask. Speaker 2 00:24:38 Right. So Speaker 1 00:24:39 Yeah. Is there anything else Speaker 2 00:24:41 In closing? Yeah. Uh, these are the things that we are going to randomly blurt out and talk to you guys about Yeah. Uh, through the next upcoming episodes. Speaker 1 00:24:51 And we will do a lot of, I mean, that's how I feel like you and I really connect. We just kind of jump in on each other's sentences. You sure do. And we blurt something out. And that won't make, I'm going like, oh, I gotta remember to tell her this. So, uh, it won't be, uh, boring. I can tell you that. I hope you'll get to laugh. Um, maybe even like me, I cried a little bit. Thanks. College Algebra . Oh Speaker 2 00:25:14 Yeah. So we do often do webinars talking about, uh, some of the fears that adult learners have mm-hmm. or coming back to school and we unpack why that's such a block in how it really shouldn't be. And, um, a lot of time management things, a lot of math tutoring because a lot of our students have not been in math since high school and they're coming back and that's a fear. Right. Um, so, you know, I basically follow us and show up to our show up, Speaker 1 00:25:45 Show up Speaker 2 00:25:46 This podcast. Speaker 1 00:25:47 We hope you enjoyed listening to episode one of our podcasts. If you want to contact us, go to our website at www.wichita.edu/learning out loud. As always, keep learning out loud.