Speaker 1 00:00:04 Welcome Speaker 2 00:00:05 To our podcast, shockers Learning Out Loud, where we talk about the fear, the excitement, the setbacks, and most importantly, the accomplishments that come along with being an adult learner. Speaker 3 00:00:14 That was your host, Dr. Pamela O'Neill. And I'm your co-host Dr. Amber Anderson. And we are the office of Online and Adult Learning. Although our department merged happened recently, Pam and I have been having fun collaborating for years. We have one goal at wsu, and that's to advocate for our online and adult learners. Our adult learners are working full-time jobs, care taking for a family member, raising a family themselves, and involved in the communities. So, needless to say, their time is limited, and we know that, and we fill you guys. Our office wants to advocate for your success, so stay tuned for the voices of your adult learning peers as we unpack funny fails, inspiring wins, and mostly the adult learning experience. Speaker 1 00:01:00 With us today is Ashley Cervantes. Ashley, you wanna tell us a little bit about yourself? Woo. Woo. Yeah. Welcome. Speaker 4 00:01:07 I'm Ashley. Thank you. Uh, my name is Ashley Cervantes. I am the program director for the McNair Scholars Program. Uh, I've been with Wichita State, this will be 15 years now. Wow. Wow. Wow. Yeah. I've been with McNair for nine, Speaker 1 00:01:22 Just fyi. Ashley looks like she's maybe 24 5. . I've been mc Speaker 4 00:01:30 Gray Hair will bake to differ for you. , but I appreciate it, Speaker 1 00:01:35 . So, um, you know, you and I have known each other for a long time now. Right? When did we, when did we first cross paths, Ashley? Speaker 4 00:01:47 So I spent, so I began my adult career journey mm-hmm. , um, at, uh, the Communication Upper Bound program in the Elliot School of Communication, Speaker 1 00:01:57 Where we are both. You graduated, you got your degree, right? Mm-hmm. . Um, and Speaker 4 00:02:02 So my bachelor's is in Strategic Communications. Right. And I started working with Communication Upper Bound right after I graduated, uh, Dr. Amy Lauder started the program. I was an undergraduate. She invited me to work as a student assistant. It turned into a professional position. And then, um, we'll talk about TRIO a little bit. Mm-hmm. , but, uh, I pretty much drank the trio, Kool-Aid. . Yeah. Yes. She have actually Speaker 3 00:02:28 Said that in our last Speaker 1 00:02:29 Podcast. Right? Yep. Speaker 4 00:02:31 Yeah. And so TRIO has just been, I mean, I was instantly passionate about it. And so that's kind of where I've spent my career. And I met you through trio. Yes. I know we're in the Elliot School of Communication. Right. But I met you through trio. You, uh, worked for that first summer Speaker 1 00:02:47 Program. Yes, yes, yes. I taught there and did a number of different things, whatever really kind of needed to be done. Mm-hmm. Because I still, I think, a graduate student when I started working for trio. And real quickly, Ashley, I know a little bit about trio, but do you, can you give us a little background about what TRIO is we have, what Stand for and it's history, maybe here at Wichita State? Speaker 4 00:03:10 Sure. Yeah. I will, I will try to do it. Justice . Uh, so TRIO doesn't stand for anything that's a common misperception. That's right. Uh, it is, it is called Trio because originally there were three programs and that kind of stuck. And so Trio is a federally is a, is a term for a, a bunch of federally funded programs. We serve students all the way from middle school through college. And, uh, the pre-college programs, uh, focus on the, the middle and high school students. And that's how I met you, that Communication. Upper Bound is a, is a pre-college program. So we work with high school students, and then there are, um, educational Opportunity centers, works with, uh, returning adults. Speaker 1 00:03:53 Yes. We work with them a little bit. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Yep. Speaker 4 00:03:56 Uh, veterans Upward Bound also works with some returning. It's, they don't focus on returning to adults. They focus on students who have, um, served as veterans. Speaker 1 00:04:05 But, you know, I think that's a lot where our, uh, we intersect there too, because most of the time, if you're a veteran, you're automatically, you know, because you've served time, you're automatically a returning adult, so mm-hmm. . Yeah. Speaker 4 00:04:18 Yeah. So, um, so those are pre-college programs. There's a talent search program. So TRIO has been at Wichita State for over 50 years through Upward Bound, through student support services, student support services, disability support services, and then the program, I'm from McNair Scholars Program. We're the, the three programs that serve college students at Wichita State, and we help them finish their path. Right. The pre-college programs are all about access and how can we set students up to be successful to come into college. And then the college programs we're, we're working with students while we're here, um, and helping them to be successful while they're here and then graduate. Speaker 1 00:04:56 Ashley, you have a wealth of information about trio, and I think you did it more than Justice. Thanks. Yeah, I know. And we have a lot of programs here at Wichita State that are, uh, TRIO programs, right? Mm-hmm. , do you know how many Speaker 4 00:05:10 On plan? I I think we're up to nine. We're up to nine programs. Speaker 1 00:05:13 Okay. Wow. That's, that's great. And most generally, and correct me if I'm wrong, trio usually serves, um, first generation and low income, or is that, do I have that right? Speaker 4 00:05:25 So most of the programs serve first generation low income students. So first generation as defined by the federal government is neither parent has a four year degree. So some college, you, you are still considered a first generation student. It's if they have completed, if your parents have completed a four year degree. Uh, so that's first generation. Mm-hmm. . And then low income is defined by the, the Federal Poverty Guidelines. Right. Are you first Speaker 1 00:05:48 Generation? We Speaker 4 00:05:49 Are, yes, I am. I am a first Generat student. Speaker Speaker 1 00:05:51 . Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And thank you for kind of defining that, because one of the things that we try to, to do is, uh, define those words, abbreviations. Yes. Alphabet soup, because Speaker 5 00:06:03 We assume everybody knows what they mean Speaker 1 00:06:06 All the time, right? Mm-hmm. . And as a first generation student, that is just, you come here and you're learning, not only are you learning, uh, what the content, but you're also learning this new language, this new way of life. Mm-hmm. . And so, uh, thank you for jumping in and defining terms, uh, that, you know, you and I and Amber, we all know, but, um, a lot of times our students don't. Correct. And so we try to, uh, demystify those abbreviations and everything. So thank you for Speaker 4 00:06:36 That. I'm gonna stick in a little bit more and talk about McNair eligibility. Sure. You doing it? Yeah. So, McNair eligibility, we're first, we serve students who are first generation low income, but then you can also be, for our program, we're a little unique. We also serve students who are just underrepresented in higher education. And so that is, uh, African American, Hispanic, Latino, uh, native American, uh, Hawaiian Pacific Islander. Speaker 1 00:06:58 Nice. Thank you for that. Because even, you know, I've asked before who are our underserved populations? And sometimes I, I forget. But, um, it's important that we talk about that. Um, and one of our adult learners, actually, one of the, I want to talk to her, talk about her for a little bit. So, Inca Vargas, if you're listening, this, this sections about, this is, this is about you. Um, can you talk a little bit about Inika and how you know her? And she was underrepresented. Uh, am I wrong there? Currently going to Wssu? No, she is, where is she? Speaker 4 00:07:36 She is at Sam Houston State University in a clinical psychology program. Nice. She was in the program, uh, for I think three years. It might have been four years. I, I was trying to get her to graduate and she was wanting to be ready. And so , um, so I think she was in the program for four years. She graduated, um, and went into Sam Houston. This is her, um, first year of study. Speaker 1 00:08:01 Nice. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 4 00:08:03 This is her first year as a graduate student. She, she was a phenomenal student, so she came in. Um, I always, I always joke that like, students are really shiny. They're really exciting when they come into the program, when Tim McNair because they know what to say and they come in. Yeah. It's like, before they've disappointed you Yeah. and like, gosh, so real life. Thank you for saying that. Because we're students. Right. And I mean, there, there are times when you struggle and you fail. And like, I'm all about supporting students, but, you know, it's that first moment where you get really excited about somebody, um, when they're coming in. And Inika was just a phenomenal student from the beginning to the end. Right. Um, and she took full advantage of everything that we had to offer. She attended meetings, she came and met and did her advising meetings. She, and she just threw herself into it. She took advantage of like every opportunity she had to do research, um, and to get herself closer to where she wanted to go. She was great too, because she knew when to say no. Like, so she knew Speaker 1 00:09:00 That's hard. That's Speaker 5 00:09:01 A good Speaker 4 00:09:02 Boundary. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And so she like, you know, we would joke that, um, she, she put enough effort in to get herself to be successful, but if it wasn't worth her time, she wouldn't put any effort into it, which I think is important. It's a skill. Speaker 5 00:09:16 It is so important. I'm wondering if that's associated more with adult learners because they are balancing so much. They've learned to be more comfortable saying no. Mm-hmm. . Speaker 4 00:09:25 Mm-hmm. . Speaker 5 00:09:26 It's something I struggled to Speaker 1 00:09:28 Do. Oh, I still do to this day. Yeah. Um, somebody probably should have, when we started this podcast and said, no, Pam , you guys stop. No, no. , but Inika. And it's, I'm glad you said that, cuz she was our first e lot mm-hmm. and e Lotti, uh, is the adult learner of the year. And I started these awards because I know how important it is to recognize students like Inika mm-hmm. . And so not only was she part of the MANA Scholars program, but she was our first adult learner of the year recipient. Mm-hmm. . And so, um, always holds a special place in our hearts. You know, her name will forever probably be, I hope, associated with our office is Speaker 5 00:10:13 How did, how would you say your office works? What are, what is your experience working with students enrolled in an online program here at wsu? Or just an adult learner? Or both? Speaker 4 00:10:24 Um, Speaker 5 00:10:25 Or are you mostly doing first year program student? Like which kind of demographic do you usually see in your office? Speaker 4 00:10:32 So we recruit students. So we work with undergraduate students, uh, who meet our eligibility requirements. But beyond that, we wanna see students who are, uh, interested and committed to a graduate degree program. So our ultimate goal for our students is to help them at obtain a doctoral degree. So everything we do is around preparing them for graduate study and specifically. That's very cool. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Doctoral education. Speaker 1 00:10:55 Um, I think for myself, and I think Amber and I have talked about this. When I came in to Wichita State, I had no idea. I don't even know if I knew, I knew a little bit about, okay, there are professors at college, but to me that was like in another life where I don't, you know, it was just so out there. Um, I didn't even think of a graduate degree. Nope. Did I know that you could get a master's and a doctor doctorate? Yeah. Did I think I was able or something I wanted to do? Not at all. Not Speaker 5 00:11:27 Particular. Yeah. It's not until the FA faculty talked to you and, and tell you, oh, you can do this. You should do this. You're really good at this. You should, you know, apply for a graduate degree. Speaker 1 00:11:40 So when you're talking to our online learners or our adult learners, do you feel that do or would you say they kind of know when they come in or they learning about you on the fly? Or do you know how you are connecting with our students? Speaker 4 00:11:57 I think it's a little bit of both. So, you know, we're talking about, like, you kind of led this whole thing about, uh, talking about terminology, right? Mm-hmm. and understanding of what things mean. I think there might be some peripheral knowledge about what graduate student or what graduate programs are, but really you don't, you don't, you know, that's part of the first generation experience, you know, and you're probably lucky if you meet some faculty member who's like, sure, you should consider graduate study. Right. Um, and so McNair, like, my hope is that we're kind of bridging that gap, right? Where we're helping students explore and learn and know what this means. Anyways, a lot of the students that I get during the recruitment process, you know, maybe they kind of have this idea of what graduate study is, but they don't know what the difference is between a master's program and a doctoral program. Mm-hmm. . And so part of the conversation that we have is talking about what the difference is, what can you do with a master's degree versus a doctoral degree. And I might refer them to a faculty member mm-hmm. , because I'm not an expert in every field. Sure. I can't, I can't be that subject expert. So, so, um, I know my students probably think, why is she telling me to talk to all these people? thing Speaker 5 00:13:02 Though, we're gonna be experts and Right. But we know them. Mm-hmm. , we can, we can connect you to the experts for Speaker 1 00:13:08 Sure. Yeah. I know that I've encouraged, uh, some of our adult learners, many of them to go talk to you. So let's, let's just for an instance real quick, let's say, um, someone's listening to this podcast mm-hmm. , and they're like, Hey, that might be something I'm interested in. What do they do, Ashley? Speaker 4 00:13:26 So they can always come and see me, and we'll talk about it. They can apply to be in the program. Uh, the website is wichita.edu/mcnair. We're accepting applications right now. Uh, we will, we'll accept applications through the end of March. Uh, we recruit now for participation in the fall. The time commitment to participate in McNair is about four to five hours in a month. It is a choice you're making, you're choosing to participate. But we, we don't, uh, we don't have busy work. Everything we do is for a purpose. There's individual advising meetings that take up about 15 to 30 minutes in a, a week. Mm-hmm. . So they're weekly meetings where you meet with a specific, you know, success coach advisor to talk about individual goals. And then we have group meetings where we cover, we fill in the gap of knowledge. We talk about what does it look like to be in grad? Speaker 4 00:14:15 Like what do you, what is graduate study? Yeah. What does that look like? How can you prepare right now as an undergraduate student to be competitive at that level? We bring in faculty to share their expertise, um, and talk about what they look for in students. And so, uh, so yeah. So that's kind of the crux of the program. There's also a research component. We serve 28 students a year. Once you come into the program, you're here till you graduate, unless you withdraw from the program. Mm-hmm. . Um, and then, uh, but 14 of those students, every year we wanna see do academic research through the program. So we, we help them pair with a faculty member. They design a research project, so they get to do research in their field. Yeah. It's a great way to affirm if you're interested in what you're studying mm-hmm. . Um, and then at the end of that process, uh, I mean, we make you work for it, but there's a $2,800 stipend at the end of that. Wow. Um, Speaker 1 00:15:07 That's nice. Speaker 4 00:15:08 Yeah. So we're not a, like, there's a misconception sometimes where people see McNair Scholars program and they think scholarship. Speaker 5 00:15:15 Yeah, that's exactly what I thought Speaker 4 00:15:16 It was. Yeah. And so we're not a scholarship program. We don't have funds for our students, but through the research component is one way we do, you know, have some funds that we, they go directly to a student. We encourage them to save that to, to fund their graduate experiences. Right. But, um, it's their money. It goes to them. Speaker 1 00:15:33 Very nice. So, you know, I was thinking back to when I was, somebody introduced me to graduate school or whatever it was. What are some of the research projects? Can you talk about that for a little bit? Just what that looks like and what is a research project? Speaker 4 00:15:52 So it can be anything. I mean, we have students from engineering to anthropology, to political science. So we have a lot of psychology students mm-hmm. . And so it really can be whatever you're interested in. I have had engineering. You're not limited. You're not limited. Okay. Um, and, you know, and we can brainstorm and you can talk to faculty and I mean, there's really, the sky's the limit. Your, you can do whatever you wanna do. Um, I had, let's see, some of the novel things that students have done in the past. I had a student look at like horse human behavior, which is like, how is that bonding experience between a human and a horse? I think she was looking at like grooming, like different ways of grooming or times of grooming Yeah. And how that impacted horse behavior. Huh. That was a pretty early project in my tenure with McNair, but it's stuck, stuck in my mind. , Speaker 1 00:16:40 . So one of the things that I never even thought about, um, until I was taking a class as far as research goes, and it became my, uh, thesis was childhood obesity. Mm-hmm. . And so I looked at media campaigns. And so even for someone like myself who is interested in more of the liberal, liberal arts mm-hmm. , um, you can do anything really, like you said, the, the sky's limit as far as communicate or not communication, but as far as research projects go, would you say mm-hmm. . Yep. Speaker 5 00:17:17 All right. When I, as an undergrad, I was, I did research with a professor in psychology, and it, it seems random to think about bonding with a horse through grooming. Interesting. Right. But Uhhuh , I, when I think about my research, it was also kind of random too because, uh, we, our study was based around the cold presser task. Speaker 1 00:17:40 The what? Speaker 5 00:17:41 Cold presser Speaker 1 00:17:42 Task. What's that? Speaker 5 00:17:43 Where we would have participants come in and like, see how long you could stick your arm into ice water. Speaker 1 00:17:50 Oh. And Speaker 5 00:17:51 The pain. And like how, like measuring pain tolerance through that and doing a whole research design around that. So that was kind of my first research topic. Not that I was interested in threshold for pain . I Speaker 1 00:18:03 Did teach Speaker 5 00:18:03 Me. I got in, I got to see how it, how the studies went. Right. We did the irb, how we collected data mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. . And it was fun to see people, you know, cringe, Speaker 1 00:18:13 Right. Speaker 5 00:18:13 Their arm in mm-hmm. , right? Ice, cold water. Random, but kind Speaker 1 00:18:17 Of fun, real quick. Irb, do you remember what that stands for? Amber? I'm putting her on the spot. Let's see if she gets this Speaker 5 00:18:24 Internal research. Speaker 1 00:18:27 I believe we can double check, but I believe it's the institutional institutional review or research review board. Review board. Yeah. And so that's just an internal office. Well, I think they're all over the United States. But you get your, you work with irb right? A little bit. Do you or no? Mm-hmm. Ashley. Speaker 4 00:18:44 Yeah. Yeah. It's focused on ethics. Okay. Yes. And those are some, like, that's another terminology that just like, and you know, I have a lot of students that that whole process of like all it is, is just making sure that your study isn't gonna harm somebody. Correct. Speaker 1 00:18:56 Right. Speaker 4 00:18:57 Right. And so you go through this process, participants. Yeah. You fill out an application, you demonstrate how your research is not gonna do that. That can be, that can feel intimidating to kind of approach, but we support students who that process, their mentors are there to support them through that process. The whole research experience through McNair is intended to give you experience with the process. Like, we're not, we are not expecting that our students are gonna solve world hunger , or, you know what I mean? Or like address some major issue. Yeah. We want them to understand the process of research. And so whatever interest they have, they can design a study around that. And, you know, we support them through the process. Speaker 1 00:19:34 Right. Speaker 5 00:19:34 And the IRB is helpful too, that it's not that they want to be a Debbie Downer and say no to what you wanna do. They, and if they have, if they don't approve what you, how, or a piece of your study they'll give you, they'll come back and give you alternative approaches and, and they'll help you mm-hmm. work through it to make sure your participants are safe. Speaker 1 00:19:56 Amber, I know that you had to do a little bit more on your, I did. When you did your doctoral study. Can you talk a little bit about that and how that really helped you? I mean, because you worked, looked at a certain population, and so can you speak to that a little bit? Speaker 5 00:20:12 So, I, I did, when you do your research study, you have, you do a proposal and you send that to the irb, and then they review it and, and tell you what they think if that's gonna work and mm-hmm. , if that's ethical. And, uh, but for me, I was working with a, um, a vulnerable population. I, my dissertation was on undocumented Latinos pursuing higher education. So, you know, they were particularly vulnerable. So I, it was hard to find them. And they, so we did have a couple extra meetings to touch base about how to go about handling this population, making sure that their, um, let's see, their identities are protected at all costs. Right. And they can quit anytime. And so Speaker 1 00:21:00 Yeah. Yeah. That we Speaker 5 00:21:02 Had a couple, yeah. A couple, yeah. Speaker 1 00:21:03 Extra meetings and, and it can be scary, but here's a good thing, and I think this is what McNair Scholars do, they kind of prepare you for that. Yeah. And know that, you know, um, should you go on to get that doctorate or whatever, you've already experienced that and you know what it's there for. And you don't face that for the first time in a doctoral program or something like that, because that can almost be your're like sitting there, you know, just hoping your study gets approved, right? Mm-hmm. . But if you've gone through it before and you've had help, it's a lot less intimidating. And so, um, kudos to Yeah. McNair for doing that, because that, that would've helped me because Yeah. I had to do my, uh, IRB for my doctoral program too. And while mine wasn't a vulnerable population, I still had to go through the process and mm-hmm. , um, if I had done it before with someone else, you know, maybe I wouldn't have been as scared mm-hmm. because it, it, it, it did feel like I was being judged. And that's not what's going on at all. No, they're, they're there to help you. And Speaker 4 00:22:04 That's probably the biggest feedback that we get from our alumni, is just having that experience with the, the whole process. Right. That's why we focus on the process. Because maybe IRB is a challenge for you, but it could be the writing component that's a challenge for somebody else. Right. And so, going through that whole process, um, I mean, the biggest thing our alumni say is like, I wish I'm glad I did it as an undergrad, because now that I'm doing it as a graduate student, like, I feel like I'm ahead of my peers. Right. Because I've faced these things before. Um, and so that's, I think, a value that we bring to the students that we serve. Speaker 5 00:22:37 Great. So, um, I will ask the question that I revised Speaker 1 00:22:43 . We had laid out questions for Ashley, but we revised them a little bit, bit . We Speaker 5 00:22:49 Tend to go off track and do circles and circle back. Um, I guess one of my questions are was I know that you guys influence your students' lives a lot. I mean, obviously with all the things that you do, but is there, would you say that any of your students have changed your life? Speaker 4 00:23:08 Yeah, I think definitely. So I read that question and I'm like, it's hard to say who it's, it's hard for me to say this student in particular, because I think almost all of my students Yeah. Changed my perspective in some way. Um, you know, cuz they're bringing different perspectives, they're bringing different experiences that are like maybe new to me. And so certainly I think my students like going through this process, being a McNair Scholar, even be, or being, being with McNair Scholars, even with my upper bound students, you know, they show you a different part of life that you, you know, as humans, we kind of go through our own experiences. Sure. Right. And I feel like I've, I'm in a great position to be able to see a bunch of different perspectives. And so I've certainly learned from several of my students, um, and my returning adult students bring a lot of different perspective too. And so I've, you know, I think I've learned a lot from my returning adult students too, just seeing their lives, seeing their expertise, work, shopping things, and, you know, it's, it's, it's great. And then once they're alumni, you know, we still stay, I stay in contact with as many of my alumni as I can, and it's just great to see them grow and then be friends on the other side of it. Right. Yes. That's Speaker 1 00:24:16 Fine. Yeah. That, that's one of the things I love about working here, is that every day I learn something, even when I'm not trying. Right. Whether it's like learning about these students and the different, the different lives they've lived. And, um, I know for me, like one of 'em will, you know, once in a while I'm gonna say, I couldn't have done it without you. I'm like, um, yeah, you could have mm-hmm. , and I'm sure you've had students say that to you mm-hmm. . Um, and while that, you know, I, I get how that feels, but, um, it, it's fun to be able to make an impact. And I'm sure that you've made an impact in many of our students' lives. So thank you for doing that. We really appreciate it. Um, and you, we can, uh, if you don't have an answer to this question, I still want to ask it though. Mm-hmm. . So our, our, uh, podcast is called Shockers Learning Out Loud. Mm-hmm. . And we ask our adult learners what their learning out loud moment is. Um, have you had a learning out loud moment or where you just went, oh my gosh, I never knew, or I never thought, yeah, Speaker 4 00:25:21 So I, I I think traditional academic study has always been something that's was my jam, right? Mm-hmm. , like, I recognize that it's not like there are, there are challenges for some students, right? The curriculum, the system that we are in doesn't work for some people, right? And I recognize that on this end, but it works for me. , , Speaker 4 00:25:42 Or at least it had worked for me, right? Mm-hmm. . Um, but then once I got into graduate study, it was just different. Like my, my study skills worked through high school, my study skills worked through college, through my undergraduate, um, degree program. But once I got to graduate school, it was like, you know, you really have to set aside time, so much time to read Mm. And like, do all of that stuff. And so that was, that was a pretty shocking experience for me. And so just that time management, right? Mm-hmm. . And so I certainly have empathy for my students that I serve. Now, knowing that like, you know, you, you gotta develop these study skills, your natural inclination, your natural ability can only take you so far, Speaker 1 00:26:21 Right? Speaker 4 00:26:22 Like, at some point in the process, you're gonna have Speaker 1 00:26:24 To, we talked about time management all the time, especially our adult learners who are, you know, doing so many things. I went to a conference recently and they said they're, and students, they're wives. They're husbands. Mm-hmm. , they're partners, they're caretakers, their employees, their employers, and they are students. Speaker 5 00:26:45 If you could turn back time and talk to your 18 year old self Hmm. What would you tell her? I know, right? Yeah. That Speaker 1 00:26:54 Reason , I think for Speaker 5 00:26:56 Me, you know, if I could go back 18 years, man, I, I would be the person I needed as an adolescent. I would, I would be sure to tell myself, you can do this. Yes, you do bring value to the table. Yes. Even if you are low income or you're coming in first generation, um, I didn't know. I just always felt like I was, I was coming from a deficit place and I didn't bring anything to the table and I was always the odd man out, or, you know, we sit around in meetings now and I feel sometimes still that little girl is still kind of like, Speaker 1 00:27:33 Do you really belong here? Here? Speaker 5 00:27:34 Yeah. Do I add value? So I think for me, going back, I would really nurture that you do belong here. Mm-hmm. , there is a place for you and, and a past that is what now I can do for students who are in that position. So mm-hmm. Speaker 4 00:27:52 . Yeah. I mean that, that resonates with me. Just that kind of affirming that you belong here kind of thing. Um, I think I had a lot of uncertainty about what path I wanted to take, especially as a, you know, as an 18 year old, I, I went to college, like I'm a first generation student, but like my grandparents, my parents really pushed going to college. Yeah. So I felt that pressure to go in and come to college, but I had no idea what to do. You just wouldn't know how. Right. How, how and then beyond how it's like, well, okay, so here I am now what? Now what a part. Yeah. Speaker 5 00:28:28 . Speaker 1 00:28:28 For real. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I go to this class now that this class is over, now what, you know, where do I go? Where, what do I do? Speaker 4 00:28:36 And especially too, I think like with like, I see, I see myself in some of my students, right? Yeah. Um, I do too with like, with just the aptitude and the talent and whatev and, you know, and so you have all these paths you can take because you can do a lot, right? And so it's like, what, you know that, that almost is paralyzing mm-hmm. Speaker 1 00:28:57 . Oh yeah. Yeah. The overwhelming, I, I know I, I've kind of felt that way too because like Amber and like you, there's this, oh, do I really belong here? My parents were farmers. I grew up on a dairy farm, you know? Mm-hmm. , what, what value could I honestly bring mm-hmm. . And so, um, yeah, there is that, but there's, there's, you find your way here. Mm-hmm. and Amber and I have said that, you know, you show up, right? You, you sit down, you show up and um, we help you find, or somebody will help you find your way. At Wichita State, Speaker 5 00:29:31 We would talk a lot about just showing up, right? Like, sometimes you just wanna disappear cuz you don't feel like you fit in. Or maybe you made up a mistake paying for this class and you're sitting there. Um, but sometimes the most brave, the bravest thing to do is just continue to show up and mm-hmm. , that's what I did. And faculty and staff helped me find my way and, and then I got my doctorate. Like, you know, I just, it, you can't show up every day and not have opportunities fall into your lab, right? Mm-hmm. , that makes sense. Yeah. Speaker 4 00:30:02 Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. And I think, you know, something I try to do as a McNair director and um, just working with students is just to affirm that, right, you belong here mm-hmm. , and, um, you know, you have capacity, you have talent, you can take this opportunity and make something of it. And also, um, you don't have to take a path just because, you know, it's, it's open in front of you. Like you have the choice. Like you, you can steer right at this point. Sure. And you can choose what you wanna do. And so I think just to circle back to that, what would I do? Right? I would tell myself, you have a lot of opportunities. Steer go where you like fun, lean, fun into that, right? Speaker 1 00:30:43 . Yes. Yeah. Speaker 5 00:30:44 What interests you? Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's true. Speaker 1 00:30:47 Well, thank you. Uh, Ashley, I think that about wraps it up for us real quickly though. If a student says, oh, you know what? Hey, maybe I am interested. Mm-hmm. , how can they reach you? Speaker 4 00:30:57 The application is open now. We'll be open through the end of March. I think that's perfect timing to air because I, I'm gonna, I'm not gonna lie to you, even though we have it open for a month student. So usually fill out the application in the last two weeks, um, . And so go to the website. Um, however this share, you can share my, uh, email. Yes, Speaker 1 00:31:16 We can, we we will do Speaker 4 00:31:17 That. And so, um, they can reach out to me directly. I can share the application. It's a, it's a pretty, we've tried to make the application process as painless as possible. There is an essay. I met with a student who was like, oh, at least there's not an essay. I was like, oh, but there Speaker 1 00:31:29 Is, oh, but there is. Yes. Speaker 5 00:31:31 Who's gonna tell them? Speaker 1 00:31:33 ? Who's gonna tell em? Speaker 4 00:31:34 But it's only 300 to 500 words. And we're just asking you to outline what your goals are. How does graduate study fit into your goals? And, um, we will. And so yeah, encourage, I mean, I would like to see everybody apply. I think, um, you know, we work with all undergraduate students. I see a lot of returning adult students who come into the program. Yeah. Just because, you know, we talked about earlier, uh, it's hard to know you wanna go to a graduate. Yeah. You know, a graduate program when you're early in your career. But a lot of my returning adult students are coming back and they're like, well, I'm here now. I might as well keep going Speaker 1 00:32:07 . That's it. That, that's kinda what I thought. Might as well keep going. Speaker 4 00:32:10 Yeah. Yeah. And they come back with that clarity of goal. It's like, okay, I can achieve more. And um, and so we can help you get there. We have a lot of returning adult students that we work with. And so I would encourage everybody to apply. I think I have 15 spots open. Um, but apply nice and we'll, we'll, we'll see what we can to get you Speaker 1 00:32:29 There. And just fyi, Ashley and I, we keep running into each other and we do here in this building cuz she's over here in Grace Skokie Annex, uh, where my office is. So we literally run into each other quite often. So, uh, phone number real quick. Ashley, um, do you have a phone number you wanna share? Yes. Uh, 3 1 6 9 7 8 3 1 3 9. Awesome. I think that about wraps it up. Thank you so much. Ashley was really nice. Thank you. Nice to meet you. Yeah, thanks. It was good to see you again my friend. Yeah. Thank you both.